a story lives forever
Register
Sign in
Form submission failed!

Stay signed in

Recover your password?
Register
Form submission failed!

Web of Stories Ltd would like to keep you informed about our products and services.

Please tick here if you would like us to keep you informed about our products and services.

I have read and accepted the Terms & Conditions.

Please note: Your email and any private information provided at registration will not be passed on to other individuals or organisations without your specific approval.

Video URL

You must be registered to use this feature. Sign in or register.

NEXT STORY

Issam Sartawi, the peace advocate

RELATED STORIES

Yasser Arafat - a very cautious man
Uri Avnery Social activist
Comments (0) Please sign in or register to add comments

Arafat created a chain of command: Abu Mazen beneath him, Issam Sartawi beneath Abu Mazen. As I said, we met with him, we made plans with him. One plan was that we would assemble a delegation of an Israeli Council for Israeli-Palestinian Peace, and that we would accept the invitation of the PLO to come to Beirut. We would fly to Beirut and from Beirut we would come back to the Israeli border overland. At the border they would certainly arrest us and then there would be a show trial, and we would have the opportunity of saying what we wanted to say.  A great idea. He went to the PLO headquarters, which was still located in Beirut. Arafat was a very careful person. Not only was he a very cautious man, but his top priority was to preserve Palestinian unity. As long as Arafat remained, there would be no split, neither Hamas nor anything. Arafat was a very pragmatic individual, very realistic, and at every step he thought: 'I want to get to this point and that, let's think about how I can get there without causing a split in my camp'. It was his way of thinking about everything, and unity of the camp was for him of the utmost importance, and rightly so. If you do not have a country, and you are part of a revolutionary movement, you do not have the luxury of being able to afford a split, although these countries for the most part always suffer from splits. And so he took small steps forward and always, at every single step, he checked how strong his position was. What is the most he could do at a given moment without causing a split or a civil war? So he was very careful. This drove me crazy. I am an impatient man, to say the very least. And it drove me crazy that we received positive responses, 'but not now…'.  Normally the answer that arrived from Beirut was: 'a great idea, but later, not now, the time isn't right'. So we sat and made plans. Sartawi had a different idea; he was a man after my own heart. He was an impatient man, and in that sense not typically Arab. The Arabs are a patient race. They have a sense of time which is completely different from ours. A century for them was like a month for us.

ונוצרה שרשרת פיקוד ערפאת, תחתיו אבו מאזן, תחתיו עיסאם סרטאווי. וכאמור, נפגשנו אתו, עשינו אתו תוכניות. תוכנית אחת הייתה: אנחנו נרכיב משלחת של ״המועצה הישראלית למען שלום ישראלי-פלסטיני״, אנחנו נקבל הזמנה של אש"ף לבוא לביירות, אנחנו נטוס לביירות, מביירות אנחנו בדרך היבשה נחזור לגבול ישראל, שם בטח יאסרו אותנו, ואז יהיה משפט ראווה ואנחנו נגיד מה שנגיד. רעיון נהדר. הוא הלך למפקדת אש"ף שישבה עדיין בביירות. ערפאת היה אדם מאוד זהיר. ערפאת, לא זה בלבד שהיה אדם זהיר, לערפאת היה תפקיד שהוא ראה בו את התפקיד הראשון במעלה, וזה לשמור על האחדות הפלסטינית. כל זמן שערפאת היה, לא היה פילוג, לא חמאס ולא בטיח. ערפאת היה אדם מאוד פרגמטי, מאוד ריאליסטי, ובכל שלב הוא חשב:"אני רוצה להגיע לנקודה הזאת והזאת, בואו נחשוב איך אני מגיע לשם, מבלי לגרום לפילוג אצלי במחנה”. זו הייתה דרך המחשבה שלו בכל דבר, ואחדות המחנה הייתה בשבילו, בצדק, ערך עליון. אם אתה אין לך מדינה, ואתה תנועה מהפכנית, אין לך את הלוקסוס שאתה יכול להרשות לעצמך פילוג, למרות שבמדינות כאלה תמיד יש פילוגים לרוב. ולכן הוא הלך צעדים קטנים קדימה, ותמיד בכל שלב הוא בדק מה המזח או הרציף יכול לסבול. מה המקסימום שהוא יכול לעשות באותו רגע מבלי לגרום לפילוג או למלחמת אחים. ולכן הוא היה מאוד זהיר. ואותי למשל זה שיגע. אני אדם חסר סבלנות, להגיד בעדינות. וזה שיגע אותי שקיבלנו תשובות חיוביות, אבל לא עכשיו. בדרך כלל מביירות באה התשובה: "רעיון נהדר, יותר מאוחר, לא עכשיו, עוד לא בשל”. וכך ישבנו ותכננו תוכניות. היה רעיון אחר של סרטאווי, שהיה אדם כלבבי. היה אדם חסר סבלנות, מבחינה זאת לא ערבי. הערבים זה גזע סבלני. יש להם חוש של זמן לגמרי שונה משלנו. אצלם מאה שנה כמו אצלנו חודש.‏

Uri Avnery (1923-2018) was an Israeli writer, journalist and founder of the Gush Shalom peace movement. As a teenager, he joined the Zionist paramilitary group, Irgun. Later, Avnery was elected to the Knesset from 1965 to 1974 and from 1979 to 1981. He was also the editor-in-chief of the weekly news magazine, 'HaOlam HaZeh' from 1950 until it closed in 1993. He famously crossed the lines during the Siege of Beirut to meet Yasser Arafat on 3 July 1982, the first time the Palestinian leader ever met with an Israeli. Avnery was the author of several books about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including '1948: A Soldier's Tale, the Bloody Road to Jerusalem' (2008); 'Israel's Vicious Circle' (2008); and 'My Friend, the Enemy' (1986).

Listeners: Anat Saragusti

Anat Saragusti is a film-maker, book editor and a freelance journalist and writer. She was a senior staff member at the weekly news magazine Ha'olam Hazeh, where she was prominent in covering major events in Israel. Uri Avnery was the publisher and chief editor of the Magazine, and Saragusti worked closely with him for over a decade. With the closing of Ha'olam Hazeh in 1993, Anat Saragusti joined the group that established TV Channel 2 News Company and was appointed as its reporter in Gaza. She later became the chief editor of the evening news bulletin. Concurrently, she studied law and gained a Master's degree from Tel Aviv University.

Tags: Beirut, Abu Mazen, Issam Sartawi, Yasser Arafat

Duration: 3 minutes, 50 seconds

Date story recorded: October 2015

Date story went live: 26 June 2017