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Why anti-Semitism flourished in Poland

RELATED STORIES

Anti-Semitism in Poland before and after the war
Jacek Kuroń Social activist
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I przy tym wszystkim, przy tym, jak przeżywałem tę żydowską sprawę, sam osobiście. Jak bardzo ona dla mnie osobiste miała takie moje własne znaczenie. To niesłychane wrażenie robiła na mnie ta fala antysemityzmu. Niesamowitego zupełnie takiego. Dorośli, dzieci. Te wszystkie wierszyki, dowcipy, żarciki. To całe... Hitler za nas robił, to za to mu postawimy pomnik. Tak sobie myślę, że – no ja oczywiście na pewno słyszałem, wyczulony byłem, w związku z tym słyszałem więcej niż było jak gdyby, to właśnie słyszałem – prawda? Ja nie mam zamiaru uogólniać i mówić, że taka była postawa większości społeczeństwa, ani sądzić że przeciwnie, nie mam w tej sprawie zdania, kto to policzy. O, są takie różne dane raporty Grota, delegata rządu na Zachód, wskazujące na to, że postawa znacznej części społeczeństwa polskiego, jak oni mówią, jest wroga Żydom. Ja to słyszałem nieustannie, wciąż, stale. I... Po pierwsze, chcę zwrócić uwagę na taki drobny szczegół, że raczej się nie przeciwstawiałem. Nie zaczynałem awantur w tej sprawie. I to po pierwsze jest jakby pewien znak, bo nie słyszałem w związku z tym... mojego głosu nie było słychać i nie było słychać głosu takich jak ja. Ja sobie tak myślę, że ten antysemityzm okupacyjny należy rozpatrywać trochę – TROCHĘ, podkreślam – trochę niezależnie od przedwojennego, tego który szerzony był przez Kościół, przez prawicę społeczną, prawicę narodową i tak dalej. Jak wiem był, to wiem z tego wszystkiego co potem czytałem. Myślę, że on trochę jest taką racjonalizacją niezbędną, żeby przeżyć i nie zwariować. Dlatego że, no tu warto, warto zdać sobie sprawę jak wielka rewolucja społeczna się wtedy dokonała. Trzy miliony ludzi zabito, to trzy miliony ludzi dostaje mieszkania, bezdomnych, nędzarzy. Dla każdego jakiś krok był wyżej, ta największa biedota żydowska miała jeszcze takie mieszkania, które warto było komuś zająć. I ta największa biedota żydowska miała jeszcze jakieś dobra, taka straszna, absolutna biedota, które ktoś jeszcze mógł uznać za dobro. Ja nie mówię już o tym złocie, które tam gdzieś, a którego też przecież trochę było, ktoś je wziął. O tych futrach sprzedawanych za bezcen z getta. Ta olbrzymia, olbrzymia rzesza, masa dóbr, która przejęta została. Trzy miliolny ludzi.

And in all of this, I was personally very affected by the whole Jewish issue. It had a profound and very personal signficance for me. That wave of anti-Semitism made a terrible impression on me. Unbelievable. Adults, children. All those little poems, those jokes. All of that: Hitler did this for us, we'll raise a monument to him for that. I think to myself that - well I must have heard, I was sensitised to this so I heard more than there was, and that's what I heard, wasn't it? I have no intention of generalising and saying this was the attitude of most of society, or the opposite and say that I have no opinion on this subject, who'll keep an account? There are all kinds of data taken from reports supplied by Grot, the government delegate to the West, indicating that the attitude of most of Polish society was, as they said, hostile towards Jews. I heard that all the time, constantly. Except that firstly, I'd like to draw your attention to a minor detail, namely, that I didn't tend to oppose this. I didn't start any arguments about this. And this is a kind of sign because, in relation to this, I didn't hear, my voice wasn't heard nor were the voices heard of people like me. What I think is that the anti-Semitism during the occupation needs to be considered slightly, I emphasise slightly, separately from the one that existed before the war and which was propagated by the Church, the social right-wing, right-wing nationalists and so on. I know that it existed, I know this from all the things I read afterwards on the subject. I think it's a form of rationalisation which is essential for survival and for our sanity. Because it's worth realising how great a social revolution took place then. Three million people were killed, so three million homeless people, vagrants get homes. Everyone was able to move up a step, even the poorest Jewish families still had homes that to someone were worth taking over. And the poorest Jewish families still had some goods, even the poorest, the most miserable of all, they still had something that someone could claim as goods. I'm not talking about that gold, which someone somewhere, and which was there and was taken by by somebody. Or the fur coats sold for a song in the ghetto. That enormous, vast hoarde, mass of goods that was taken over. Three million people.

The late Polish activist, Jacek Kuroń (1934-2004), had an influential but turbulent political career, helping transform the political landscape of Poland. He was expelled from the communist party, arrested and incarcerated. He was also instrumental in setting up the Workers' Defence Committee (KOR) and later became a Minister of Labour and Social Policy.

Listeners: Marcel Łoziński Jacek Petrycki

Film director Marcel Łoziński was born in Paris in 1940. He graduated from the Film Directing Department of the National School of Film, Television and Theatre in Łódź in 1971. In 1994, he was nominated for an American Academy Award and a European Film Academy Award for the documentary, 89 mm from Europe. Since 1995, he has been a member of the American Academy of Motion Picture Art and Science awarding Oscars. He lectured at the FEMIS film school and the School of Polish Culture of Warsaw University. He ran documentary film workshops in Marseilles. Marcel Łoziński currently lectures at Andrzej Wajda’s Master School for Film Directors. He also runs the Dragon Forum, a European documentary film workshop.

Cinematographer Jacek Petrycki was born in Poznań, Poland in 1948. He has worked extensively in Poland and throughout the world. His credits include, for Agniezka Holland, Provincial Actors (1979), Europe, Europe (1990), Shot in the Heart (2001) and Julie Walking Home (2002), for Krysztof Kieslowski numerous short films including Camera Buff (1980) and No End (1985). Other credits include Journey to the Sun (1998), directed by Jesim Ustaoglu, which won the Golden Camera 300 award at the International Film Camera Festival, Shooters (2000) and The Valley (1999), both directed by Dan Reed, Unforgiving (1993) and Betrayed (1995) by Clive Gordon both of which won the BAFTA for best factual photography. Jacek Petrycki is also a teacher and a filmmaker.

Tags: anti-semitism, war, occupation, Jews

Duration: 3 minutes, 55 seconds

Date story recorded: 1987

Date story went live: 12 June 2008