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My first revolution

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Your identity at birth is down to chance
Jacek Kuroń Social activist
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The story with those Ukrainians also has enormous significance in my life. Namely, the father of one of my friends told me that some friend of my father's, not just any old friend but one whom I was very fond of, he was called Czajka. He used to tell me stories by London, when I was being put to bed, he'd sit by me and tell me stories by London. Later, I read all those stories that he told me but I never liked them as much as when he used to tell them to me. He told me that he was Ukrainian. This came an awful shock to me, because to be a Ukrainian in Lwów was a terrible thing among Poles. Although it was probably the other way around among Ukrainians. So I came home and said, 'Dad, listen, apparently that Czajka is a Ukrainian'. To which my father replies, 'No, he isn't, but I am'. And then he left me because he had to do something. Listen, for me this was an unbelievable shock. I spent the entire day agonising over this and coming to terms with it. I went to him to ask for more details. I hadn't made the connection that it must have been my grandfather and all that, he apparently was from Sosnowiec - it was a real body blow for me. I couldn't have been more than five years old and I said to him again about this Ukrainian, to which he says, 'I'm not, but that's accidental, it's down to chance who's born as what'. This was a complete revelation to me. This shaped my attitude to matters relating to nationality for the rest of my life. Today, I don't believe that this information is true that who you're born as is accidental, but who you are is not a complete accident, and a person choses their nationality, religion, life. But the fact that I could have made a different choice played a fundamental role in my awareness - I had freedom of choice, that's how I would put it.

Z tymi Ukraińcami to taka historia, która znowu ma takie wielkie znaczenie w moim życiu. Mianowicie ojciec jakiegoś mojego kolegi powiedział, że jakiś tam przyjaciel mojego ojca, nawet nie jakiś tylko taki lubiany bardzo przeze mnie, Czajka się nazywał. Londona mi opowiadał jak... jak mnie mieli uśpić to siadał przy mnie i opowiadał mi Londona. Ja potem przeczytałem wszystko, co on mi opowiedział i nigdy mi się tak nie podobało, jak kiedy on mi to opowiedział. Otóż, że on jest Ukraińcem – powiedział. I mnie to oczywiście trafiło, bo we Lwowie być Ukraińcem to coś bardzo złego, w polskim środowisku, pewnie w ukraińskim odwrotnie. No i przyszedłem ja do domu i mówię: "Tata, słuchaj, ten Czajka jest podobno Ukrainiec", Na to tata odpowiada: "On nie, ale ja tak", I zostawił mnie bo coś tego. Słuchaj, dla mnie to było niesłychany wstrząs. Ja calutki dzień się z tym męczyłem i się z tym pogodziłem, przychodzę do niego o jakieś szczegóły się dopytać. Wiesz nie pokojarzyłem sobie, że to musi dziadek, to wszystko, niby z Sosnowca kompletnie – taki strzał w głowę. Co ja mogłem mieć lat pięć i mówię do niego: "Wiesz, jestem Ukraińcem", a on: "Wiesz, nie jestem" – powiada. "Ale przecież to jest przypadek kto się kim urodzi". I dla mnie była to absolutna iluminacja. Mój stosunek do spraw narodowych to ukształtowało na zawsze. Nie jest, jak sądzę dziś, prawdziwa informacja – wprawdzie to jest przypadek kto się kim urodzi, ale nie jest zupełnie przypadek kto kim jest i naród, tak jak religie, tak jak życie, człowiek sobie wybiera. Ale dla świadomości, że mógłbym wybrać inaczej, to odegrało zasadniczą zupełnie rolę, że mam jakby właśnie swobodę wyboru – o, tak bym to powiedział.

The late Polish activist, Jacek Kuroń (1934-2004), had an influential but turbulent political career, helping transform the political landscape of Poland. He was expelled from the communist party, arrested and incarcerated. He was also instrumental in setting up the Workers' Defence Committee (KOR) and later became a Minister of Labour and Social Policy.

Listeners: Jacek Petrycki Marcel Łoziński

Cinematographer Jacek Petrycki was born in Poznań, Poland in 1948. He has worked extensively in Poland and throughout the world. His credits include, for Agniezka Holland, Provincial Actors (1979), Europe, Europe (1990), Shot in the Heart (2001) and Julie Walking Home (2002), for Krysztof Kieslowski numerous short films including Camera Buff (1980) and No End (1985). Other credits include Journey to the Sun (1998), directed by Jesim Ustaoglu, which won the Golden Camera 300 award at the International Film Camera Festival, Shooters (2000) and The Valley (1999), both directed by Dan Reed, Unforgiving (1993) and Betrayed (1995) by Clive Gordon both of which won the BAFTA for best factual photography. Jacek Petrycki is also a teacher and a filmmaker.

Film director Marcel Łoziński was born in Paris in 1940. He graduated from the Film Directing Department of the National School of Film, Television and Theatre in Łódź in 1971. In 1994, he was nominated for an American Academy Award and a European Film Academy Award for the documentary, 89 mm from Europe. Since 1995, he has been a member of the American Academy of Motion Picture Art and Science awarding Oscars. He lectured at the FEMIS film school and the School of Polish Culture of Warsaw University. He ran documentary film workshops in Marseilles. Marcel Łoziński currently lectures at Andrzej Wajda’s Master School for Film Directors. He also runs the Dragon Forum, a European documentary film workshop.

Tags: Sosnowiec, Jack London

Duration: 2 minutes, 3 seconds

Date story recorded: 1987

Date story went live: 12 June 2008