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Escape from the labour camp

RELATED STORIES

Mossad, the best secret service in the world
Marek Edelman Social activist
Comments (1) Please sign in or register to add comments
Zak Lamont
Friday, 05 April 2019 03:50 PM
This man, Marek Edelman, is deeply disturbed in his rejection of Zionism. Obviously, history had no...
More...
This man, Marek Edelman, is deeply disturbed in his rejection of Zionism. Obviously, history had no teaching power over him. Only a psychiatrist and a lengthy period of psychotherapy would have released him from his mind blocks.

[Q] A wrócisz do Lublina?

A co ma być w Lublinie?

[Q] W Lublinie ma być Antek, Celina, ich spotkania z syjonistami...

A tam... więc jakśmy się tam spotkali z tym, to oni byli bardzo ważni, bo oni już motali tą sprawę tej... jak się nazywa? Tej...

[Q] Brichy.

Brichy. Bo wiecie, ci syjoniści to jest banda przecież obrzydliwych politykierów. Ben Gurion i tak dalej to jest lepsza banda politykierów. No i tak to oni tutaj do Polski... jak się nazywa ten ich wywiad? Mossad? Mossad, najlepszy wywiad na świecie, w całej Europie był.

[Q] Ale wtedy jeszcze nie było Mossadu, to chyba była Haganah chyba.

Nie, był, żebyś wiedziała, że zanim była Haganah, zanim był syjonizm, zanim był Ben Gurion, zanim było coś... był Mossad, szpiegostwo, Żydzi szpiedzy. Więc tak byli całą Europę, wszędzie byli, w Rumunii byli, na Węgrzech byli, wszędzie. Do Polski nie mogli przejść przez góry, bo śnieg padał, przez pięć lat padał śnieg i nigdy nie można było przejść przez góry. I ile razy się umawiali tutaj w tej... Będzinie z tą... jak się Sara nazywała?

[Q] Biderman.

Sara Biderman, którą tam złapali i drugą dziewczynę, które czekały na tych Shlichim, tych szpiegów wstrętnych żydowskich, nigdy nie przyszli, aż ich nie złapali do obozu. I całe szczęście, że żyła Irka, wariatka, Gelblum, czyli dzisiaj się nazywa Konti. Ja wiem bardzo dobrze, była piękną dziewczyną, miała 17 lat, rozumu miała tyle, co powinna mieć, po niemiecku umiała dwa słowa, ferca... bitte i jeszcze guten tag i więcej nic. I jeździła tylko niemieckimi pociągami Nur fur deutsche, wkładała czarny płaszcz i kapelusz wielkości ronda jak parasol i siadała w przedziale dla oficerów. I jak tego... zasypiała na ramieniu oficera, albo nie zasypiała, albo się tam tuliła do niego, na stacji wysiadała. Tam było gorzej, bo była jakaś wacha, coś takiego, ale sobie radziła. I ona, jak tą Sarkę z tą drugą zapomniałem, jak ta druga się nazywała – wsadzili, bo jak mieli przyjść ci Shlichim to mało, że nie przyszli, to jeszcze musieli gdzieś puścić farbę, bo do tej pralni, ten pracz, który ich przechowywał przez całą wojnę, jak oni mieli przyjść, to nagle przyszło Gestapo, zabrało ich do obozu w Myślenicach. No i Irka przyjechała zobaczyć, co tam się dzieje.

[Q] Will you go back to talking about Lublin?

What was in Lublin?

[Q] Antek, Celina, their meetings with the Zionists.

Oh that. Well, when we met with him, they were very important because they were already involved in the Bricha affair. Those Zionists, they're a bunch of horrible political agitators, Ben Gurion, a right bunch, political agitators. And so here to Poland, Mossad, the best secret service in the world. They were everywhere in Europe.

[Q] But Mossad didn't exist then, it was probably still Haganah.

No, it was... you need to know that before Haganah existed, before there was zionism, before Ben Gurion, before anything else there was Mossad, espionage, Jewish spies. So yes, they were throughout the whole of Europe, they were everywhere, in Romania, in Hungary, but they couldn't cross the mountains into Poland because it was snowing, it was snowing for 5 years and so they couldn't cross the mountains. And each time they arranged to meet here, in Będzino, Sara Biderman whom they caught and a second girl who were waiting for those "Shlichim", those odious Jewish spies who never came, until they were caught and sent to the camp, and it was a stroke of luck that Irka was alive, a crazy woman, Gelblum, today she's called Conti - I know that perfectly well - she was a beautiful girl, 17 years old, she had as much sense as was right for her to have, she knew two words in German "Ferce bitte" and "Guten tag" and nothing more than that. She only ever travelled in German trains' - "Nur Für Deutsche" - wearing black coat and a hat with a massive brim the size of an umbrella. She would sit in the carriage reserved for officers and fall asleep on the shoulder of one of the officers or wouldn't fall asleep, or would snuggle up to him and then get out at a station but there it would be harder as there'd be some sort of sentry box, but she managed. She, like Sarka, and that other one whose name I can't remember, they were put into prison because when the Shlichim were meant to come, as if it wasn't enough that they didn't turn up, they must have let something slip because that laundrette, that laundry man who'd sheltered them throughout the whole war, when they were supposed to come, the Gestapo suddenly turned up and took them to a camp in Myślenice. So then Irka arrived to see what was happening there.

Marek Edelman (1919-2009) was a Jewish-Polish political and social activist and a noted cardiologist. He was the last surviving leader of the 1943 uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto. Following the Second World War, he took an active part in domestic and international politics, dedicating himself to fighting for justice and peace.

Listeners: Anka Grupinska Joanna Szczesna Joanna Klara Agnieszka Zuchowska

Anka Grupinska studied English at the Adam Mickiewicz University in Poznan, Poland. She wrote for Poznan’s underground publications and was herself one of the founding publishers of the bi-monthly Czas Kultury. She spent 1988 and 1989 in Israel compiling reminiscences of Holocaust survivors. From 1991 to 1993, she held the post of Cultural Attache at the Polish Embassy in Tel Aviv. She moved back to Poland in 1996 and now writes books on Jewish subjects, mainly dealing with the history of the Warsaw ghetto. She is also a freelance journalist for Tygodnik Powszechny. Anka Grupinska is the director of the Centropa Foundation project in Poland (oral history project) called “The Witness of the Jewish Century¿, presents her own radio programme, “Of Jews and of Poles too¿, and teaches creative writing and oral history in Collegium Civitas and SWPS in Warsaw.

Anka Grupinska ukonczyla filologie angielska na UAM w Poznaniu. Wspólpracowala z poznanskimi pismami podziemnymi, wraz z innymi zalozyla i wydawala dwumiesiecznik "Czas Kultury". W latach 1988-1989 przebywala w Izraelu opracowujac wspomnienia ocalalych z Zaglady. W latach 1991-1993 pracowala jako attaché kulturalny w ambasadzie polskiej w Tel Awiwie. Od 1996 mieszka w Polsce. Anka Grupinska specjalizuje sie w tematyce stosunków polsko-zydowskich. Publikuje ksiazki (m. in. Wydawnictwo Literackie, Zydowski Instytut Historyczny, Twój Styl), artykuly prasowe (m. in. "Tygodnik Powszechny", "Rzeczpospolita"), realizuje projekty wystawiennicze. Jest takze koordynatorem miedzynarodowego projektu "Swiadek zydowskiego wieku" (archiwizowanie pamieci o zydowskiej przedwojennej Polsce), prowazi autorska audycje radiowa "O Zydach i o Polakach tez" i uczy warszawskich studentów sztuki czytania i pisanie tekstów literackich.

Joanna Szczesna, dziennikarka "Gazety Wyborczej", autorka - wraz z Anna Bikont - biografia polskiej noblistki "Pamiatkowe rupiecie, przyjaciele i sny Wislawy Szymborskiej". Od lat 70-tych zwiazana z opozycja demokratycznaw Polsce, wspólpracowniczka Komitetu Obrony Robotników, wspóltwórczyni prasy niezaleznej w Polsce: redaktorka "Biuletynu Informacyjnego KOR-u", Agencji Prasowej "Solidarnosc" i "Tygodnika Mazowsze".

Joanna Szczesna is a journalist writing for Gazeta Wyborcza. Together with Anna Bikont, she’s the author of Pamiatkowe rupiecie, przyjaciele i sny Wislawy Szymborskiej (The Recollected Flotsam, Friends and Dreams of Wislawa Szymborska) a biography of Wislawa Szymborska, the Polish winner of the Noble Prize for Literature. Since the 1970s, Joanna Szczesna has been involved with the democratic opposition movement in Poland, active in the Worker’s Defence Committee (KOR), the co-founder of the independent press in Poland: editor of KOR’s Information Bulletin, Solidarnosc Press Agency and Tygodnik Mazowsze.

Joanna Klara Agnieszka 'Aga' Zuchowska, urodzona 20 stycznia 1938. Ojciec zginal w Katyniu. Po wojnie zamieszkala w Lodzi. Studia ukonczyla w 1960 r. a specjalizacje z chorób wewnetrznych w 1973 r. Doktorat obronila we Wroclawiu. Pracowala z Markiem Edelmanen przez 15 lat. W 1982 r. wyjechala do Algerii. Wrócila do Polski w 1985 r. i mieszka obecnie w Lodzi.

Joanna Klara Agnieszka 'Aga' Zuchowska was born 20 January 1938. Her father was killed in the Katyń massacre. After the war, she moved from Warsaw to Lódz. She obtained a degree in medicine in 1960, qualifying as a specialist in internal medicine in 1973. Dr Zuchowska worked with Marek Edelman for 15 years. In 1982 she left Poland for Algeria where she remained for the next three years, returning to Poland in 1985. She currently lives in Lódz.

Tags: Lublin, Bircha affair, Poland, Hossad, Haganah, Europe, Romania, Hungary, Shlichim, Myślenice, Gestapo, David Ben-Gurion, Sara Biderman

Duration: 3 minutes, 16 seconds

Date story recorded: December 2003

Date story went live: 24 January 2008