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Epidemic of political madness

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Toxic effect of Stalinism
Jan Józef Lipski Social activist
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I rzecz wygląda w sposób tutaj dosyć taki zawiły i skomplikowany. Bo tych czerwonych krawatów było bardzo wiele, ale nie było tak, żeby były wyłącznie one. Tylko rzecz wyglądała w ten sposób, że duży procent ludzi o postawach aktywnych, i to aktywnych w różny sposób – między innymi można mówić o aktywności intelektualnej – nagle została ogarnięta nową wiarą. I to w sposób z jakimś niezwykłym natężeniem emocjonalnym. I teraz w tej sytuacji, kiedy tym ludziom patrzył obłęd z oczu, co do których miało się tę świadomość, że oni w tym obłędzie gotowi są zrobić coś, czego dwa lata przed tym by nie zrobili – człowiek miał nadzieję, że po pięciu latach może też już tego nie zrobią – ale że w tym momencie gotowi są, no na najgorsze rzeczy, że mogą na człowieka donieść i to w dodatku pytanie: prawdziwie czy kłamliwie? Oni może nawet uczciwie wyobrażając sobie, że nie kłamią, tylko właśnie mając już ten... paranoiczne widzenie rzeczywistości, w ten sposób donieść, że człowiek przez wiele lat nie wyjdzie z mamra. I ta... a w najlepszym razie wyleci z uniwersytetu. Ta świadomość była cały czas taka bardzo paraliżująca, a jednocześnie dokonała się pewnego rodzaju taka selekcja, że wśród ludzi, którzy tym amokiem nie zostali ogarnięci, którzy byli mniej więcej normalni – to wcale nie była na ogół elita intelektualna ówczesnego uniwersytetu. Co jeszcze pogarszało sytuację, człowiek ma tę naturalną skłonność... naturalną skłonność, żeby wymieniać poglądy z ludźmi o właśnie... o jakiejś szczególnej aktywności intelektualnej. I tutaj z jednej strony, wśród tych, którzy wyglądali najniebezpieczniej i mieli ten największy żar w oczach, wśród nich było dużo ludzi właśnie o zupełnie dobrym poziomie umysłowym, co prawda, skażonym w tym momencie tym swoim wariactwem. A jednocześnie była obawa przed nimi, że w jakimś stopniu można mówić to, co się myśli. No sytuacja, jednym słowem, pod każdym... z każdego punktu widzenia – między innymi moralnego – bardzo trudna do zniesienia. To obejmowało coraz więcej ludzi i coraz głębiej ich jakoś przeżerało. To znaczy, byli na przykład wśród nich tacy, o których była opinia, że on nie donosi. I to było cenione niezwykle wśród ludzi takich, którzy się w to nie zaangażowali. No jest to słaby komplement powiedzieć o kimś, że nie donosi, ale niemniej była to już rzecz wystarczająca, by kogoś bardzo wysoko ocenić. Też pytanie, co to znaczy: nie donosi – jeżeli wchodzi na trybunę i publicznie, nie anonimowo, nie kryjąc się po kątach, nie pisząc donosów do bezpieki mówi, co myśli o którymś ze swoich kolegów, co może się skończyć w lepszym razie usunięciem z uniwersytetu, to też pytanie, czy można go na pewno ocenić jako tego, który nie donosi? Jest to co innego jednak niż taka działalność już ochotniczego agenta, prawda? To było zupełnie nie do wytrzymania. I najgorsze w tym wszystkim było to, że nagle się zauważało, że ci ludzie zaczynają myśleć zupełnie innymi kategoriami w ogóle myślowymi i zupełnie, jakby mieli inną psychikę, jakby tutaj desant z Marsa wysiadł. Ja nie rozumiem, jak oni są skonstruowani w ogóle. To było najgorsze, bo jednocześnie parę lat temu, dwa lata temu z tymi ludźmi normalnie byłem w stanie rozmawiać.

At this point, matters appear to be complex. There were a lot of red cravats but they weren't the only ones there. A large percentage of people who were active, and I mean active in various ways including intellectually, were suddenly swept up by a new faith with unusual emotional intensity. So in this situation, with these people all of whom had a mad gleam in their eyes, it was clear that some of them were prepared to do something in their madness which they wouldn't have done two years earlier – I hoped that five years hence they also wouldn't do such things – but right then, they were prepared to do the worst things possible, they would have informed on other people, and it was questionable whether what they were saying was true or false. Perhaps they honestly imagined that they weren't lying, except that they had a paranoid vision of reality, and to inform in such a way that would lead to another person being in prison for many years, or at the very least, getting kicked out of university. That awareness paralysed us constantly, yet at the same time, a certain type of selection took place among the people who hadn't fallen prey to this madness, and who were more or less normal – and they weren't the university's intellectual elite. What made matters worse was that people have a natural tendency... natural tendency to exchange views with others on the matter of a particular intellectual activity. And here, among these people who appeared the most dangerous and whose eyes burned the most intensely, were many people who were on a perfectly acceptable intellectual level although at that time they were tainted with their particular madness. At the same time, people were afraid of them, of speaking their minds. In a word, the situation was in many aspects, including a moral aspect, very hard to bear. This affected a growing number of people and it seemed to consume them more and more. I mean there were those among them about whom it was said they'd never inform. This was greatly appreciated by the people who didn't get involved in this. It's not much of a compliment to say that someone would never inform, but nevertheless it was enough to make that person very highly respected. But then, there's the question what does it mean that he doesn't inform: if he gets up on the podium and publically, not anonymously, not hiding in corners, not writing letters to the secret services, says what he thinks about one of his friends, which at best will result in the friend being kicked out of the university, so then can you really say that he's the sort of person who wouldn't inform? But this is different from the actions of a voluntary agent, isn't it? That was completely unacceptable. Worst of all was that suddenly you could see all these people were beginning to think in completely different mental categories, it was as if their psyche had changed, as if they'd come from Mars. I couldn't understand what made them tick at all. This was the worst thing because a few years ago, two years ago I was able to talk to these people perfectly normally.

Jan Józef Lipski (1926-1991) was one of Poland's best known political activists. He was also a writer and a literary critic. As a soldier in the Home Army (Armia Krajowa), he fought in the Warsaw Uprising. In 1976, following worker protests, he co-founded the Workers' Defence Committee (KOR). His active opposition to Poland's communist authorities led to his arrest and imprisonment on several occasions. In 1987, he re-established and headed the Polish Socialist Party. Two years later, he was elected to the Polish Senate. He died in 1991 while still in office. For his significant work, Lipski was honoured with the Cross of the Valorous (Krzyż Walecznych), posthumously with the Grand Cross of the Order of Polonia Restituta (1991) and with the highest Polish decoration, the Order of the White Eagle (2006).

Listeners: Jacek Petrycki Marcel Łoziński

Cinematographer Jacek Petrycki was born in Poznań, Poland in 1948. He has worked extensively in Poland and throughout the world. His credits include, for Agniezka Holland, Provincial Actors (1979), Europe, Europe (1990), Shot in the Heart (2001) and Julie Walking Home (2002), for Krysztof Kieslowski numerous short films including Camera Buff (1980) and No End (1985). Other credits include Journey to the Sun (1998), directed by Jesim Ustaoglu, which won the Golden Camera 300 award at the International Film Camera Festival, Shooters (2000) and The Valley (1999), both directed by Dan Reed, Unforgiving (1993) and Betrayed (1995) by Clive Gordon both of which won the BAFTA for best factual photography. Jacek Petrycki is also a teacher and a filmmaker.

Film director Marcel Łoziński was born in Paris in 1940. He graduated from the Film Directing Department of the National School of Film, Television and Theatre in Łódź in 1971. In 1994, he was nominated for an American Academy Award and a European Film Academy Award for the documentary, 89 mm from Europe. Since 1995, he has been a member of the American Academy of Motion Picture Art and Science awarding Oscars. He lectured at the FEMIS film school and the School of Polish Culture of Warsaw University. He ran documentary film workshops in Marseilles. Marcel Łoziński currently lectures at Andrzej Wajda’s Master School for Film Directors. He also runs the Dragon Forum, a European documentary film workshop.

Tags: activist, new belief, madness, betrayal, paranoia, fear, intellectual elite, informer

Duration: 4 minutes, 46 seconds

Date story recorded: October 1989

Date story went live: 09 March 2011