And my own ambitions had grown beyond individual things, and I was interested in running a department. Washington University has a great history of neuroscience. The most recent chair had been Max Cowen, but they had a great history before that. So, when they asked me to be the chairman, I struggled with that decision for a while, but Ruth and I decided let's move and see what it's like.

So we left Harvard; few people do that. I had tenure at the time. I had tenure at the NIH, and I had tenure at Harvard. When I go back and calculate, I think I passed tenure review six times in my career, twice at Harvard, once at WashU, twice at the NIH [and once at Columbia]. Anyhow, it goes on and on.