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Plan for radical changes

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Debating societies at the university
Jacek Kuroń Social activist
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We had a club at the University of Warsaw. Apart from that, this club was welcomed by everyone with open arms. The fact that the young people debated there was a total novelty for everyone, no one was bothered by the fact that the debates were not polite, they ignored that. That's what those times were like since the October movement had imploded, had committed... the October movement had committed suicide, and so the authorities, Gomułka had enormous support, the authorities felt very confident and perhaps this was the only time in the history of the Polish People's Republic that when he was asked at the university what was the greater danger revisionism or dogmatism, Kliszko answered, 'The greatest danger within the Party is apathy.' At the same time, Trzaw, who was the Party's flag-waving idealogue, told Adam Michnik and his friends who had come to him for help with setting up this debating society, 'Marxist thought, even if it's revisionist, is worth its weight in gold.' If you realise that the greatest threat to Marxism was always revisionism, far greater even than the opposition, then this sentence shows what strange times these were. And so the debates were heated at the university. A crowd turned up straight away. I went there as part of ZMS which used to give tutorials at various factories. At the Warsaw foundry, I used lead all of the debating groups and they paid me for it and even bragged that no one wanted to go to tutorials anywhere else but they had Comrade Kuroń coming to them from the university, and even the caretaker couldn't make the people leave. The Secretary of the Warsaw foundry, Papaj, talked about this at the executive meeting of the KW, and bragged about it a lot.

Myśmy mieli klub na Uniwersytecie Warszawskim. Oprócz tego... właśnie... i ten klub został przyjęty z otwartymi rękami przez wszystkich. Fakt, że ta młodzież dyskutowała, był czymś tak rewelacyjnym dla wszystkich, że zupełnie nie interesowało to, że ona dyskutowała niegrzecznie, a to na to machano rękę. Był to taki czas, ponieważ Październik sam się zakneblował, sam popełnił... ruch październikowy sam popełnił samobójstwo, w związku z tym władza – a Gomułka miał gigantyczne poparcie – władza czuła się niesłychanie pewnie i był to taki jedyny może okres w historii PRL, kiedy to zapytano Kliszkę na Uniwerku, jakie niebezpieczeństwo jest większe: czy rewizjonizm, czy dogmatyzm, a on na to powiedział: "W partii najbardziej niebezpieczny jest marazm". W tym samym czasie Trzaw, jeszcze sztandarowy ideolog partii, powiedział do Adasia Michnika i kolegów, którzy przyszli do niego, żeby im pomógł założyć ten klub dyskusyjny, powiedział: "Myśl marksistowska, nawet rewizjonistyczna, jest na wagę złota". Jak sobie zda sobie człowiek sprawę, że dla marksizmu największym wrogiem był właśnie rewizjonizm, zawsze, dużo większym niż przeciwnicy z przeciwnej strony, no to zdanie wskazuje jaki to był dziwny czas. Więc pyskowano na Uniwersytecie. Od razu zbiegł się wokół tego tłum. Ja chodziłem z ramienia ZMS prowadzić szkolenia w różnych zakładach. W Hucie Warszawa  prowadziłem wszystkie grupy dyskusyjne i oni mi za to płacili i jeszcze się przechwalali, że wszędzie nie chcą ludzie chodzić na szkolenia, a u nich przychodzi z Uniwersytetu towarzysz Kuroń i nawet woźna nie może ludzi wypędzić z zajęć. Na posiedzeniu egzekutywy KW mówił o tym Papaj, sekretarz Huty Warszawa, strasznie się tym przechwalając.

The late Polish activist, Jacek Kuroń (1934-2004), had an influential but turbulent political career, helping transform the political landscape of Poland. He was expelled from the communist party, arrested and incarcerated. He was also instrumental in setting up the Workers' Defence Committee (KOR) and later became a Minister of Labour and Social Policy.

Listeners: Jacek Petrycki Marcel Łoziński

Cinematographer Jacek Petrycki was born in Poznań, Poland in 1948. He has worked extensively in Poland and throughout the world. His credits include, for Agniezka Holland, Provincial Actors (1979), Europe, Europe (1990), Shot in the Heart (2001) and Julie Walking Home (2002), for Krysztof Kieslowski numerous short films including Camera Buff (1980) and No End (1985). Other credits include Journey to the Sun (1998), directed by Jesim Ustaoglu, which won the Golden Camera 300 award at the International Film Camera Festival, Shooters (2000) and The Valley (1999), both directed by Dan Reed, Unforgiving (1993) and Betrayed (1995) by Clive Gordon both of which won the BAFTA for best factual photography. Jacek Petrycki is also a teacher and a filmmaker.

Film director Marcel Łoziński was born in Paris in 1940. He graduated from the Film Directing Department of the National School of Film, Television and Theatre in Łódź in 1971. In 1994, he was nominated for an American Academy Award and a European Film Academy Award for the documentary, 89 mm from Europe. Since 1995, he has been a member of the American Academy of Motion Picture Art and Science awarding Oscars. He lectured at the FEMIS film school and the School of Polish Culture of Warsaw University. He ran documentary film workshops in Marseilles. Marcel Łoziński currently lectures at Andrzej Wajda’s Master School for Film Directors. He also runs the Dragon Forum, a European documentary film workshop.

Tags: University of Warsaw, Polish People`s Republic, ZMS, KW, Warsaw foundry, Władysław Gomułka, Zenon Kliszko, Adam Michnik

Duration: 1 minute, 48 seconds

Date story recorded: 1987

Date story went live: 12 June 2008