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Moral cost of the 1968 anti-Semitic campaign

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'They don't want us here'
Jan Józef Lipski Social activist
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Najważniejszym następstwem tego, co stało się w roku ’68 przede wszystkim tej dzikiej propagandy antysemickiej, była decyzja przyjęcia propozycji wyjazdowej rzuconej przez samego Gomułkę i honorowanej zresztą, nawet więcej niż honorowanej, bo paszporty nie tylko dawano, kiedy... ktokolwiek prosił dlatego, że jest Żydem, ale je wciskano na siłę również niechcącym tym, którzy nie bardzo tego pragnęli. Bardzo wielu ludzi w Polsce podjęło decyzję emigracyjną, z tym że była to bardzo zróżnicowana sprawa. Przede wszystkim chodziło o to, że nie każdy nerwowo taką atmosferę wytrzymuje i to jest sprawa...i to jest sprawa podstawowa. Bywało tak, że przyjaciele, którzy decydowali się wyjeżdżać, pytali mnie, co o tym sądzę, a ja na to mówiłem: „Słuchajcie, nie dajcie się tutaj wpędzić w jakąś histerię. To rzeczywiście jest nieprzyjemne, za parę miesięcy to ustanie i potem długo, długo będzie tak, że będziemy to tylko wspominać. Nie sądzę, żeby coś więcej tutaj stać się mogło i myślę, że jeżeli nie odczuwacie jakiejś takiej już niezbędnej potrzeby, jeżeli tego... to może spróbujcie zostać”. Oczywiście mówiłem do takich wahających się, no bo jak ktoś już, widziałem, że jest zupełnie zdecydowany, no to nie ma o czym mówić. No i wtedy niejednokrotnie kapitulowałem, między innymi, jak mi się na przykład... zadawano mi takie pytanie: „No dobrze, ale ja jestem odpowiedzialny również nie tylko za siebie, ale za swoje dzieci i teraz powiedz mi, czy Ty jesteś pewny, czy dajesz pełne gwarancje, że tutaj nic się gorszego nie stanie niż się teraz dzieje?”. No, jaką ja mogłem dać gwarancję, jak raz się na tę drogę weszło, no to już widzieliśmy taki naród i takie okoliczności w których, no, zaczęło się...no, może... drastycznie, no, ale powiedzmy tak, jak to w ’30 latach potrafiły bojówki Falangi robić, to znaczy pałka, kastet i nie tak znowu masowo, a skończyło się tym, co się nazywa Endloesung der Judenfrage, prawda? Więc w gruncie rzeczy, za co ja... jak ja... co ja mogę ludziom tym zagwarantować, jak coś się zaczęło, to nie wiadomo nigdy czym się skończy, no i mówiłem: „No... wiecie, no za swoje dzieci to tylko wy ponosicie odpowiedzialność, no, no niestety ja... ja nie mogę wam niczego obiecać, bo sam nie wiem, co dalej będzie, ja tylko przypuszczam, mam takie swoje przypuszczenia, jak to dalej się potoczy”. No i to było wszystko razem i to była najczęstsza kategoria ludzi, którzy wyjeżdżali, dlatego że po prostu nerwowo tego nie wytrzymywali. No, ale... ale jak sobie przypominam, ile różnych przyczyn było, no, znam wypadki takie, kiedy jeden z członków rodziny powiadał, że nie chce wyjechać, a ktoś inny powiadał, że chce wyjechać. W rezultacie sprawa stawała tak ostro, że trzeba się albo rozejść, albo razem pójść tą drogą, którą wybiera bardziej uparty i w ten sposób następowała emigracja. Były na pewno również te wypadki w których emigrujący [myśleli]: „Tutaj nas nie chcą, tu nas źle traktują, a tam mi będzie lepiej”. Myślę, że tak też niejednokrotnie... co przypominać zaczyna już emigrację zarobkową, ale emigrację zarobkową jednak podpartą tym kopnięciem w tyłek, prawda, nie taka zupełnie czysta emigracja zarobkowa, chociaż to się też zdarzało.

The most significant consequence of the events of ‘68, of that intense anti-Semitic propaganda, was the decision to take up the proposition to leave the country, which came from Gomułka himself and was respected, even more than respected, because not only were passports given as soon as anyone asked for one on account of being Jewish but they were forced even on those people who didn't particularly want them. A great many people in Poland decided to emigrate although often it was a very diverse matter. Apart from anything else, not everyone was able to cope with the stress this atmosphere engendered, and this was... this was a fundamental issue. Sometimes, friends who had decided to leave would ask me what I thought of their decision to which I would say: ‘Listen, don't let yourselves be whipped up into any sort of hysteria. Of course it's unpleasant but in a few months everything will have settled down and then we'll all just be talking about it for a long time afterwards. I don't think there's much more that can happen here so if you don't feel compelled to leave then maybe you should try staying.’ Of course, I only said this to those people who were undecided because if I saw that someone had made up their mind to leave, there was nothing more to say. So then I would often give in, especially when people said, ‘Alright then, I'm responsible not just for myself but also for my children, so now tell me are you certain, can you guarantee that nothing worse is going to happen than is already happening?’ What guarantee could I give once we'd started going down this road, we'd already seen that kind of nation and these kinds of circumstances in which, well, it began… well, perhaps this is a little drastic, the way the Falanga hit-squads used to operate in the 30s, using sticks and knuckle dusters, although not on a large scale, and this led to what came to be known as Endloesung der Judenfrage. So really, what could I... what guarantee could I give people, once something has begun you never know how it might end and I said, ‘Well, you know that only you are responsible for your children, unfortunately, I can't make you any promises because I don't know myself what's going to happen next’. This was the group of people who most frequently emigrated because they simply couldn't cope with the stress. But when I remember how many different reasons there were. I knew of cases where one member of the family would say that they didn't want to leave while another would say that they didn't want to stay. As a result, things would become so difficult people either had to separate or together go down the same path that the more determined partner had chosen, and this is how emigration came about. There must also have been cases where the emigrants...: they don't want us here, they are treating us badly there, we'll be better off somewhere else. I think this must have happened more than once which begins to resemble economic emigration, but these economic migrants were being propelled by a kick up the backside so it wasn't purely economic emigration although that happened, too.

Jan Józef Lipski (1926-1991) was one of Poland's best known political activists. He was also a writer and a literary critic. As a soldier in the Home Army (Armia Krajowa), he fought in the Warsaw Uprising. In 1976, following worker protests, he co-founded the Workers' Defence Committee (KOR). His active opposition to Poland's communist authorities led to his arrest and imprisonment on several occasions. In 1987, he re-established and headed the Polish Socialist Party. Two years later, he was elected to the Polish Senate. He died in 1991 while still in office. For his significant work, Lipski was honoured with the Cross of the Valorous (Krzyż Walecznych), posthumously with the Grand Cross of the Order of Polonia Restituta (1991) and with the highest Polish decoration, the Order of the White Eagle (2006).

Listeners: Jacek Petrycki Marcel Łoziński

Cinematographer Jacek Petrycki was born in Poznań, Poland in 1948. He has worked extensively in Poland and throughout the world. His credits include, for Agniezka Holland, Provincial Actors (1979), Europe, Europe (1990), Shot in the Heart (2001) and Julie Walking Home (2002), for Krysztof Kieslowski numerous short films including Camera Buff (1980) and No End (1985). Other credits include Journey to the Sun (1998), directed by Jesim Ustaoglu, which won the Golden Camera 300 award at the International Film Camera Festival, Shooters (2000) and The Valley (1999), both directed by Dan Reed, Unforgiving (1993) and Betrayed (1995) by Clive Gordon both of which won the BAFTA for best factual photography. Jacek Petrycki is also a teacher and a filmmaker.

Film director Marcel Łoziński was born in Paris in 1940. He graduated from the Film Directing Department of the National School of Film, Television and Theatre in Łódź in 1971. In 1994, he was nominated for an American Academy Award and a European Film Academy Award for the documentary, 89 mm from Europe. Since 1995, he has been a member of the American Academy of Motion Picture Art and Science awarding Oscars. He lectured at the FEMIS film school and the School of Polish Culture of Warsaw University. He ran documentary film workshops in Marseilles. Marcel Łoziński currently lectures at Andrzej Wajda’s Master School for Film Directors. He also runs the Dragon Forum, a European documentary film workshop.

Tags: Poland, Falanga hit-squads, Władysław Gomułka

Duration: 4 minutes, 19 seconds

Date story recorded: October 1989

Date story went live: 11 March 2011