a story lives forever
Register
Sign in
Form submission failed!

Stay signed in

Recover your password?
Register
Form submission failed!

Web of Stories Ltd would like to keep you informed about our products and services.

Please tick here if you would like us to keep you informed about our products and services.

I have read and accepted the Terms & Conditions.

Please note: Your email and any private information provided at registration will not be passed on to other individuals or organisations without your specific approval.

Video URL

You must be registered to use this feature. Sign in or register.

NEXT STORY

Protests against the suspension of Po prostu

RELATED STORIES

Puławska versus Natolińska
Jan Józef Lipski Social activist
Comments (0) Please sign in or register to add comments

Bardziej sprawa była niejasna z „Puławianami” czy z tą grupą „puławską”. W każdym razie niewątpliwie ta grupa robiła co można, żeby mieć w społeczeństwie – a w szczególności w tych miejscach tego społeczeństwa opiniotwórczych, chociażby takich jak „Po prostu” – żeby mieć opinię liberalną, żeby mieć opinię, że to jest grupa dążąca do przemian liberalnych. Skądinąd nie przyjmowaliśmy tego tak... tak zbyt... no, nie wierzyliśmy, krótko mówiąc, tak w to za bardzo; bo tak pierwsza myśl to zawsze była, że właściwie dlaczego Roman Zambrowski to ma być takim wielkim liberałem, dotychczas raczej nie był, no, ludzie się może zmieniają, ale to chyba nie o to chodzi w tej chwili, że ludzie się zmieniają. I w rezultacie była pewna taka nieufność. Ale tu nazwą grupa „puławska” oznaczano również w owym czasie – co może wynikało z pewnego braku precyzji – ale również pewne mniejsze grupki partyjne, ilościowo mniejsze, gdzie tam dochodziło do jakichś czasowych... jakichś sojuszów i kiedy się mówiło na przykład o młodym... sekretariacie czy tam na przy... tam Jerzy Morawski, Matwin, tam paru innych ludzi rzeczywiście dosyć młodych, a już na wysokich stanowiskach partyjnych, no to to było mniej oczywiste niż w wypadku Zambrowskiego, że to są ludzie, którym nie należy wierzyć, chociaż też nie mogę powiedzieć, bo we mnie budzili specjalną ufność. W tej sytuacji ja należałem do tych, którzy bardzo popierali tę linię, której głównym rzecznikiem w redakcji „Po prostu” był Jan Olszewski. Nie wdawajmy się te... w te spory między nimi, to są oni, między „Natolinem” a grupą „puławską”; nie zawsze wiemy o co chodzi i nie ma powodu, żebyśmy się wprzęgali w ten rydwan, jeżeli oni będą chcieli coś konkretnego zrobić, ustawa taka i taka i okazuje się, że „Natolin” jest przeciw tej ustawie, a grupa „puławska” jest za tą ustawą, to my możemy tę ustawę popierać, ale niekoniecznie przy tej okazji krzyczeć, że „Puławianie” są więc ludzie, którzy zbawią Polskę, prawda, że to są dwie zupełnie różne rzeczy, a poprzeć wtedy powinniśmy, jeśli uważamy, że ma to sens. I tak dzisiaj z perspektywy czasu widzę, że rzeczywiście najmądrzejszym tam stanowiskiem było to, które Jan Olszewski proponował. Było tam rzeczywiście... te gry frakcyjne – bardzo nieraz interesujące i z których czasami mogło coś wyniknąć dobrego dla społeczeństwa – rzeczywiście nie były takimi, w które nam warto byłoby się angażować i przyjmować to jako swoje. No, na szczęście „Po prostu” nigdy... nigdy się... do takiej identyfikacji nie doszło w „Po prostu”. I to chwała Bogu.

Things with the Puławianie – that is the Puławska group – were less clear. This group undeniably did what it could to have a reputation – among society for being liberal, especially among the opinion leaders like Po prostu – a reputation for being a group that was striving for liberal reforms. We didn't take this too... well, in a word, we didn't really believe this because our first thought was always, well, why should Roman Zambrowski be such a great liberal when so far he hasn't been. Perhaps people do change but I don't think that this was about people changing and so there was a certain amount of distrust. But here, perhaps through lack of precision, the name Puławska group also referred at that time to certain smaller party groups, with fewer members, which formed temporary friendships, and when, for instance, people spoke about the young secretariat or about Jerzy Morawski, Matwin or several of the others, people who really were quite young but were already occupying high positions within the party, and it was less obvious than in Zambrowski's case that these weren't people you could believe, although I can't say this because they made me feel I could trust them. In this situation, I was one of those who were very supportive of the line taken by Jan Olszewski the main spokesman for Po prostu. Let's not get caught up in their mutual rivalry, that's them, between Natolin and the Puławska group, we don't always know what the issue is and there's no need for us to get involved, if they want to do something, this or that kind of a law and it turns out that Natolin is opposed to it while the Puławska group is in favour, we can support that law but we don't have to start shouting that the Puławska lot are the people who'll save Poland. These are two completely different things and we should only support something when we believe it makes sense. Today, with hindsight, I can see that this approach advocated by Jan Olszewski really was the wisest course to follow. There really were factional play-offs, which occasionally were fascinating and from which something could emerge that was very useful to society, but they really weren't worthy of our involvement or of making their cause our own. Luckily, in Po prostu it never came to that kind of association, thank God.

Jan Józef Lipski (1926-1991) was one of Poland's best known political activists. He was also a writer and a literary critic. As a soldier in the Home Army (Armia Krajowa), he fought in the Warsaw Uprising. In 1976, following worker protests, he co-founded the Workers' Defence Committee (KOR). His active opposition to Poland's communist authorities led to his arrest and imprisonment on several occasions. In 1987, he re-established and headed the Polish Socialist Party. Two years later, he was elected to the Polish Senate. He died in 1991 while still in office. For his significant work, Lipski was honoured with the Cross of the Valorous (Krzyż Walecznych), posthumously with the Grand Cross of the Order of Polonia Restituta (1991) and with the highest Polish decoration, the Order of the White Eagle (2006).

Listeners: Marcel Łoziński Jacek Petrycki

Film director Marcel Łoziński was born in Paris in 1940. He graduated from the Film Directing Department of the National School of Film, Television and Theatre in Łódź in 1971. In 1994, he was nominated for an American Academy Award and a European Film Academy Award for the documentary, 89 mm from Europe. Since 1995, he has been a member of the American Academy of Motion Picture Art and Science awarding Oscars. He lectured at the FEMIS film school and the School of Polish Culture of Warsaw University. He ran documentary film workshops in Marseilles. Marcel Łoziński currently lectures at Andrzej Wajda’s Master School for Film Directors. He also runs the Dragon Forum, a European documentary film workshop.

Cinematographer Jacek Petrycki was born in Poznań, Poland in 1948. He has worked extensively in Poland and throughout the world. His credits include, for Agniezka Holland, Provincial Actors (1979), Europe, Europe (1990), Shot in the Heart (2001) and Julie Walking Home (2002), for Krysztof Kieslowski numerous short films including Camera Buff (1980) and No End (1985). Other credits include Journey to the Sun (1998), directed by Jesim Ustaoglu, which won the Golden Camera 300 award at the International Film Camera Festival, Shooters (2000) and The Valley (1999), both directed by Dan Reed, Unforgiving (1993) and Betrayed (1995) by Clive Gordon both of which won the BAFTA for best factual photography. Jacek Petrycki is also a teacher and a filmmaker.

Tags: Puławianie, Puławska group, Po Prostu, Natolin, Roman Zambrowski, Jerzy Morawski, Władysław Matwin, Jan Olszewski

Duration: 3 minutes, 27 seconds

Date story recorded: October 1989

Date story went live: 10 March 2011