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Natalya Gorbanevskaya

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My translations
Tomas Venclova Poet
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Na, be eilėraščių, be vertimų, aš daug verčiau, tad ir tada kaip tik specializavausi modernistų kūrybos srityje. Kitaip sakant, verčiau tuos ką, kuriuos į lietuvių kalbą mažai kas vertė. Sakysime tokius poetus kaip Eliotas, kaip Dilanas Tomas, kaip Sen-Žon Persas, prancūzų autorius, kaip Anri Mišo, kaip Rainer Maria Rilke iš vokiečių, Konstantinas Kavafis iš graikų, ir pavyko. Ir kaip tik vertimus man pavykdavo išspausdinti. Dar galima paminėti Oskarą Milašių arba Oskarą Milošą, Česlovo vyresnįjį giminaitį, jo tokį tolimą, sakyčiau, giminaitį. Galima vadinti dėde, nors jis žinoma tikras dėdė nebuvo, bet iš tos pačios giminės. Jis buvo, tarpukario laikotarpiu dirbo Nepriklausomos Lietuvos pasiuntinybėje kaip konsultantas, kadangi jis buvo, labai gerai mokėjo prancūziškai. Buvo prancūzų poetas, rašė prancūzų kalba puikius eilėraščius, ir turėjo labai plačių pažinčių prancūzų visuomenėje. Na ir ta prasme galėjo Lietuvai daug padėti. Česlovas jį pažinojo, pas jį lankydavosi ir laikė jį, ligi gyvenimo pabaigos, laikė Oskarą savo mokytoju. Tai štai Oskaro Milošo, arba Milašiaus, kaip jis lietuviškai vadinamas, eilėraščių irgi keletą išverčiau tada į lietuvių kalbą ir išspausdinau. Na, išverčiau dramų, sakysime Alfredo Žari dramą “Karalius Ubu”, Prancūziškai “Ubu Roi”, o lietuviškai “Karalius Ubu”, nu aš jį pavadinau “Karalius Juoba”, skamba taip truputį gal net ir nepadoriai. Ta drama turėjo pasisekimą, buvo Lietuvoje pastatyta ir... Vadinasi, galėjau egzistuoti kaip vertėjas. Šiek tiek užsiiminėjau mokslu, literatūros mokslu. Važinėjau į Tartu, į Estiją, tada tai buvo irgi tarybinė respublika, kaip ir Lietuva okupuota šalis. Nebuvo jokių sienų, buvo galima lengvai Vilniuj atsisėsti į traukinį ir pavakary jau būti Tartu. Ir tenai lankiausi, lankiau paskaitas pas profesorių Lotmaną. Profesorius Lotmanas, Tartu mokslininkas, sukūręs visą semiotikos mokyklą. Čia Prancūzijoje semiotiką plėtojo pradedant nuo Ferdinando de Sosiūro, paskui ir daugelis kitų, Levi-Strausas, Roland Barthes, iš dalies ir Michel Foucault; o Rusijoje, arba Tarybų Sąjungoje, tiksliau pasakius, ją plėtojo Lotmanas. Mane tas labai domino, aš pas jį lankiausi, klausiau jo paskaitų, su juo bendravau nemažai ir netgi norėjau pas jį rašyti disertaciją, bet buvo aišku, kad aš jos neparašysiu, kadangi reikėjo laikyti, iš pradžių, marksizmo egzaminą. O aš taip jau nemėgau marksizmo tuo metu, kad aš niekaip nesiryžau to egzamino išlaikyti. Man tai buvo labai, taip sakant, svetima. Na, taip disertacijos tada ir neparašiau, bet taip liko iš to laiko tokia nuomonė, kad aš esu Lotmano mokinys. Na, Lotmano irgi nebėra, deja, gyvo. Atsimenu jį, jo laidotuvėse dalyvavo net Estijos prezidentas, specialiai atvyko į Tartu, taip sakant, ir pasakė per laidotuves, kad: aš laikau sau didele garbe, kad Lotmanas gyveno šalyje, kurios prezidentas aš esu.

Apart from poems and translation, of which I did a great many, as it happens I specialised in modernist works. To put it another way, I translated things which few people translated into Lithuanian. Let's say, poets like [TS] Eliot, Dylan Thomas, Saint-John Perse, French author Henri Michaux, Rainer Maria Rilke from Germany, the Greek writer Constantine Cavafy – and I was successful. I managed to get my translations published. I could also mention Oskaras Milašius – or Oscar Miłosz – an older relative of [Czesław] Miłosz, a distant relative of his, I should say. One could call him his uncle, even though he wasn't his real uncle but they were related. He was... during the interwar years... he worked as an adviser in the legation of Independent Lithuania, since he was... since he knew French very well. He was a French poet, wrote wonderful poems in French, and had a very wide circle of acquaintances in French society. Well, and in that way he was able to help Lithuania a lot. Czesław knew him. He'd go to visit him and considered him, until the end of his life, considered Oscar to be his teacher. So I translated several poems by Oscar Miłosz – or Milašius, as he is called in Lithuanian – into Lithuanian, and had them published. Well, I translated some plays, for example, Alfred Jarry's drama Ubu King, called Ubu Roi in French. Well, I called it Karalius Juoba; perhaps that even sounds a little indecent. The play was a success. It was staged in Lithuania and... in other words, I could make a living as a translator. I developed a slight interest in literary studies. I used to go to Tartu, to Estonia which at the time was also a Soviet republic, an occupied country like Lithuania. There were no borders, one could easily get on a train in Lithuania and be in Tartu by early evening. And I went there. I attended lectures by Professor [Yuri] Lotman. Professor Lotman, a Tartu scholar, was the founder of a whole school of semiotics. In France, semiotics was developed initially by Ferdinand de Saussure, then by many others: [Claude] Lévi-Strauss, Roland Barthes, in part by Michel Foucault as well, while in Russia – or the Soviet Union to be exact – it was developed by Lotman. I was very interested in that, I went to visit him, I went to his lectures, I spent quite a lot of time with him and I even wanted to write a dissertation, but it was clear that I wouldn't be able to write it since it was necessary, first of all, to pass an exam in Marxism. And because I really didn't like Marxism then I certainly didn't intend to sit that exam. That was, as it were, foreign to me. Well, so I didn't write that dissertation then the opinion from that time was that I was Lotman's pupil. Well, Lotman also is, alas, no longer alive. I remember him. Even the Estonian president attended his funeral, came specially, as it were, to Tartu and gave a eulogy at the funeral, saying, ‘I consider it a great honour that Lotman lived in the country of which I am the president'.

Born in 1937, Tomas Venclova is a Lithuanian scholar, poet, author and translator of literature. He was educated at Vilnius University and later at Tartu University. As an active participant in the dissident movement he was deprived of Soviet citizenship in 1977 and had to emigrate. Between 1977 and 1980 he lectured at University of California, Berkeley, where he became friends with the Polish poet Czesław Miłosz, who was a professor of Slavic Languages and Literature at the school, as well as the Russian poet Joseph Brodsky. He is currently a full professor at Yale University.

Listeners: Andrzej Wolski

Film director and documentary maker, Andrzej Wolski has made around 40 films since 1982 for French television, the BBC, TVP and other TV networks. He specializes in portraits and in historical films. Films that he has directed or written the screenplay for include Kultura, which he co-directed with Agnieszka Holland, and KOR which presents the history of the Worker’s Defence Committee as told by its members. Andrzej Wolski has received many awards for his work, including the UNESCO Grand Prix at the Festival du Film d’Art.

Tags: Lithuania, Ubu King, Karalius Juoba, Tartu, TS Eliot, Dylan Thomas, Saint-John Perse, Henri Michaux, Rainer Maria Rilke, Constantine Cavafy, Oskaras Milašius, Czesław Miłosz, Alfred Jarry, Yuri Lotman, Ferdinand de Saussure, Claude Lévi-Strauss, Roland Barthes, Michel Foucault

Duration: 3 minutes, 58 seconds

Date story recorded: May/June 2011

Date story went live: 20 March 2012