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Friendships and acquaintances
Tomas Venclova Poet
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I used to associate with Poles a good bit, well, firstly, because right up to [Joseph] Brodsky's death I was friends with Brodsky, and up to [Czesław] Miłosz's death I was friends with Miłosz. And through them you get into many other émigré circles. With regards to American society, well, my colleagues, my colleagues at Yale. Well, we, of course, our department, our lecturers socialise together, there is, as it were, a permanent circle, constant socialising – whether that's within the university or in each other's homes. Lately, one of my good friends is Professor Timothy Snyder. I don't know if his name is familiar to you but yesterday I went into a bookshop in Paris and the French edition of his book Bloodlands or Kruvinosios žemės was on sale there. It's probably the best book written recently on the crimes of Hitler and Stalin. I sometimes say that that is the most terrifying book in the world. Because there are lots of books, let's say, about the extermination of the Jews in Hitler's concentration camps, and there are lots of books about how Stalin exterminated people and nations, there are books, let's say, about the siege of Leningrad when over a million people died of starvation. Those are terrible, terrible events. But there had been no book where all of those events were included in one book. And that is precisely what Timothy Snyder's book does... and I got to know him as an academic. Before writing that book, Timothy Snyder published another book about contested towns in Eastern Europe. About Vilnius... this, so to speak, belongs to Lithuania but the Poles laid claims to it and to some extent still do. Another town like that is Lviv in Ukraine to which the Poles and the Ukrainians lay claim. It belongs to Ukraine. The Poles have in fact relinquished their claim, but it still persists in wider society. That book on the history of Vilnius and Lviv was given to me to review... the section on Vilnius, since I am more or less an expert on Vilnius. Well, I did review it. I was very surprised that Timothy Snyder is extremely well versed in those matters; there was hardly anything I could pull him up on. I wrote a positive review and we became friends from that time. That's one of those relationships where we, so to speak, are friends, visiting each other's homes. He visits us, we visit him. Not only does he speak English very well but also Polish. When we get together we sometimes even speak to one another in Polish. He's now one of the most prominent American historians. A relationship with him is something you can be proud of. Well, I live in that academic world in America, but I wouldn't say that I am a very social person. I very often have to be on my own for me to write something, to do something. And for me... for me to be accepted, as it were, in fashionable society, that... that isn't really very important, even though I have made the acquaintance of some of them, with the intellectual aristocracy. I made the acquaintance of Susan Sontag, I made the acquaintance of Arthur Miller, well, and with some other people but those were acquaintances... we certainly didn't see each other every day, perhaps once a year, perhaps twice a year. That's probably all I can say in response to your questions.

Su lenkais nemažai bendravau Nu, pirmiausia, kadangi ligi pat Brodskio mirties bičiuliavausi su Brodskiu, ir ligi Milošo mirties bičiuliavausi su Milošu. O jau per juos įeini į daugelį kitų emigrantų ratelių. Dėl amerikiečių visuomenės, na, mano kolegos, mano kolegos Jeile. Na, mes žinoma, mūsų katedra, mūsų dėstytojai bendrauja, tai yra tokia, taip sakant, nuolatinis ratelis, nuolatinis bendravimas. Ar tai universiteto patalpose, ar tai vieni kitų butuose. Pastaruoju metu vienas iš mano gerų draugų yra profesorius Timotis Snaider. Nežinau ar jo vardas jums girdėtas, bet aš vakar buvau užėjęs čia į vieną Paryžiaus knygyną, ten jau yra jo knyga prancūziškai parduodama – “Bloodlands”, arba, “Kruvinosios žemės”. Tai, turbūt, geriausia knyga pastaruoju metu parašyta apie Hitlerio ir Stalino nusikaltimus, apie vienus ir kitus. Aš kartais sakau, kad tai labiausiai šiurpinanti knyga pasaulyje. Nes yra daug knygų apie, sakysime, žydų naikinimą Hitlerio konclageriuose, ir yra daug knygų apie tai, kaip Stalinas naikino žmones ir tautas. Yra knygų, sakysime, apie Leningrado apgultį, kada badu išmirė virš milijono žmonių. Tai vis baisūs... baisūs įvykiai. Bet nebuvo knygos, kur visi tie įvykiai būtų suvesti į vieną. Kaip tik tokia yra Timoti Snaiderio knyga. Ir aš su juo susipažinau akademine linija. Prieš rašydamas tą knygą, Timotis Snaideris išleido kitą knygą apie ginčijamus miestus Rytų Europoje. Apie Vilnių, kuris yra, taip sakant, priklauso Lietuvai, bet kai kurių pretenzijų į jį turėjo, ir iš dalies net ir tebeturi, lenkai. Kitas toks miestas yra Lvovas Ukrainoje, į kurį pretenzijų turi lenkai ir ukrainiečiai, jis priklauso Ukrainai. Lenkai tų pretenzijų faktiškai jau yra atsisakę, bet platesniuose sluoksniuose jų dar esama. Reiškia, toji knyga apie Vilniaus ir Lvovo istoriją man buvo duota pracenzuoti, Vilniaus skyrius, kadangi aš daugiau mažiau esu Vilniaus žinovas. Na, aš pacenzavau, labai nustebau, kad Timotis Snaideris puikiai nusimano tuose klausimuose, beveik nebuvo ką jam prikišti. Dar parašiau gerą recenziją ir nuo to laiko mes susibičiuliavome. Tai štai akademiniame pasaulyje vienas iš tų ryšių, mes, taip sakant, draugaujam namais, taip sakant, jis pas mus užeina, mes pas jį užeiname. Jis labai gerai kalba ne tik angliškai, bet ir lenkiškai. Kartais net ir bendraujame lenkiškai su juo. Dabar vienas iš pačių iškyliausių Amerikos istorikų, tai tokia pažintis, kuria galima didžiuotis. Nu, taip sakant, tame akademiniame Amerikos pasaulyje, šiek tiek egzistuoju, bet nepasakyčiau, kad esu labai socialus žmogus. Man labai dažnai reikia pabūti vienišam, kad aš ką nors parašyčiau, ką nors padaryčiau. Ir tas, tas, taip sakant, būti priimtam Amerikos, sakysim, aukštuomenės sluoksniuose man, man tas dalykas tikrai nėra labai svarbus. Nors su kai kurias iš jų būdavau pažįstamas, su tokia intelektualine aukštuomene. Buvau pažįstamas su Susan Sontag, buvau pažįstamas su Artūru Mileriu, nu ir su kai kuriais kitais, bet tai buvo tokios pažintys... toli gražu nesimatėm kasdien, gal kartą per metus, gal kartą per porą metų. Tai, turbūt, tiek galiu atsakyti.

Born in 1937, Tomas Venclova is a Lithuanian scholar, poet, author and translator of literature. He was educated at Vilnius University and later at Tartu University. As an active participant in the dissident movement he was deprived of Soviet citizenship in 1977 and had to emigrate. Between 1977 and 1980 he lectured at University of California, Berkeley, where he became friends with the Polish poet Czesław Miłosz, who was a professor of Slavic Languages and Literature at the school, as well as the Russian poet Joseph Brodsky. He is currently a full professor at Yale University.

Listeners: Andrzej Wolski

Film director and documentary maker, Andrzej Wolski has made around 40 films since 1982 for French television, the BBC, TVP and other TV networks. He specializes in portraits and in historical films. Films that he has directed or written the screenplay for include Kultura, which he co-directed with Agnieszka Holland, and KOR which presents the history of the Worker’s Defence Committee as told by its members. Andrzej Wolski has received many awards for his work, including the UNESCO Grand Prix at the Festival du Film d’Art.

Tags: Bloodlands, Kruvinosios žemės, Vilnius, Lviv, USA, Czesław Miłosz, Joseph Brodsky, Timothy Snyder, Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Susan Sontag, Arthur Miller

Duration: 3 minutes, 54 seconds

Date story recorded: May/June 2011

Date story went live: 20 March 2012