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My capitalist parents


I'm a born optimist
Uri Avnery Social activist
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מראיינת: אתה רוצה להגיד משהו קדימה?‏

הספר נקרא "אופטימי", זה לא שם שאני בחרתי, זה שם שבחרה ההוצאה. ברגע הזה שאני מדבר, נובמבר 2015, קשה מאוד מאוד מאוד להיות אופטימי. אני יכול להוכיח בכוח ההיגיון הצרוף שהמדינה הזאת הולכת לקראת אבדון. אז להרבה אנשים צעירים אולי זה לא איכפת מפני שהצעירים, בייחוד ממה שנקרא "השכבות המבוססות" מתחילים לרדת מהארץ. יש היום קהילות של ישראלים צעירים כמעט בכל מקום בעולם המערבי, וזה חלק מהתמונה העגומה, והמדיניות של הממשלה הנוכחית מובילה בהכרח לאסון. כאמור, למדינת אפרטהייד עם מלחמת אחים נצחית שבאיזשהו מקום בעוד 20, 30, 50 או 100 שנה יהפוך את היהודים במדינה הזאת למיעוט קטן וזה בעצם האפשרות היחידה של המדיניות הזאת. וראש הממשלה, בנימין נתניהו, אני מסרב לקרוא לו ביבי מפני שזה שם חיבה והוא לא חביב עלי, בנימין נתניהו אמר על הפסוק "הלנצח תאכל חרב?" שלנצח תאכל חרב. וזה אחד המקרים המעטים שבהם הוא אמר אמת, מה שהוא באמת חושב. ביבי משתדל לא להגיד אמת אם הוא יכול להימנע מזה. אבל אני נשארתי אופטימי משתי סיבות: א', מפני שזה טבע. אדם נולד אופטימי או פסימי. אני נולדתי אופטימי. אבא שלי היה אופטימי, לא יודע אם הסבא שלי, ייתכן שכן. זה עניין של רגש, ועניין של מוח. אני בחיים האלה ראיתי כל כך הרבה דברים שמוכרחים היו לקרות ולא קרו, ודברים שאי-אפשר שיקרו כן קרו, לכן אני לא סומך על הניתוח שלי כרגע. אני מאמין שיש סיכוי סביר שהדברים ישתנו בעוד מועד.‏

[Q] Do you want some kind of epilogue?

The book is called Optimistic. That's not the title I chose, that was chosen by the publisher. At the moment − November 2015 − it is very, very hard to be optimistic. I can prove by the power of pure reason that this country is doomed. It may not matter to many of the young people because the young people, especially the so-called 'well-established' are starting to leave the country. There are now young Israeli communities almost everywhere in the Western world, and that is only part of the bleak image. The policy of the current government is inevitably leading towards disaster. Like I said, it will end in an apartheid state with a perpetual civil war, and maybe in 20, 30, 50 or 100 years this will mean that the Jews in this country will constitute a minority, and that's the only possible outcome of this policy. The Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu − I refuse to call him Bibi because that is a name of affection, and I have no affection for him − Benjamin Netanyahu said about the verse, 'Shall we live by the sword?' that we will live by the sword forever which is one of the few instances in which he told the truth, what he really thinks. He tries not to tell the truth if he can help it. However, I've remained optimistic for two reasons: first, because it is natural to do so. A person is born an optimist or a pessimist. I was born an optimist. My father was an optimist; I don't know if my grandfather was − it's very likely. It is a matter of emotion, and a matter of the brain. During this life I saw so many things that should have happened and didn't happen, and things that should not have happened but happened anyway. For that reason I no longer depend on my analysis. I believe there is a reasonable chance that in time things will change.

Uri Avnery (1923-2018) was an Israeli writer, journalist and founder of the Gush Shalom peace movement. As a teenager, he joined the Zionist paramilitary group, Irgun. Later, Avnery was elected to the Knesset from 1965 to 1974 and from 1979 to 1981. He was also the editor-in-chief of the weekly news magazine, 'HaOlam HaZeh' from 1950 until it closed in 1993. He famously crossed the lines during the Siege of Beirut to meet Yasser Arafat on 3 July 1982, the first time the Palestinian leader ever met with an Israeli. Avnery was the author of several books about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including '1948: A Soldier's Tale, the Bloody Road to Jerusalem' (2008); 'Israel's Vicious Circle' (2008); and 'My Friend, the Enemy' (1986).

Listeners: Anat Saragusti

Anat Saragusti is a film-maker, book editor and a freelance journalist and writer. She was a senior staff member at the weekly news magazine Ha'olam Hazeh, where she was prominent in covering major events in Israel. Uri Avnery was the publisher and chief editor of the Magazine, and Saragusti worked closely with him for over a decade. With the closing of Ha'olam Hazeh in 1993, Anat Saragusti joined the group that established TV Channel 2 News Company and was appointed as its reporter in Gaza. She later became the chief editor of the evening news bulletin. Concurrently, she studied law and gained a Master's degree from Tel Aviv University.

Tags: Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu

Duration: 4 minutes, 6 seconds

Date story recorded: October 2015

Date story went live: 26 June 2017